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Hälsa => Allmänt om hälsa och ohälsa => Ämnet startat av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.14 - 23:17:33



Titel: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.14 - 23:17:33
Matt Stone gör en summering av hur han ser på sin RRARF (kommer inte ihåg på rak hand vad det står för men nånting med rehabilty rest and refeed) och lägger in det här så det är lätt att hitta tillbaka till. Det är gjort i förbifarten i en kommentar till ett inlägg som handlar om insulinsresistens som kan vara intressant att läsa i sig.

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If I was pressed to come up with a summary to date that applies to the RRARF program specifically, I would say:
 
1) Probably better to eat more frequently, or at least have snacks between meals during recovery
 
2) Probably no need to fear juice and even less reason to fear fruit. Experiment to see whether you find sugar or starch or a combination of the two to be superior. I still prefer, for eating beyond appetite specifically, to eat starch.

3) Overfeeding with refined carbohdyrates, particularly highly stimulating foods like cookies, cake, doughnuts, and ice cream if probably a horrendous idea unless you are underweight and have no addictive eating tendencies.

4) Need for meat, dairy, fish, eggs, and other animal-source protein is really small during overfeeding. Carbohydrates should be strongly emphasized, especially if you are coming from a low-carb background. For a recovering vegan, lots of animal protein would be better for a while.
 
The idea should be counterbalancing the imbalance your other diets created.

No major changes really. RRARF basically states all these things, just not quite as directly.

http://180degreehealth.com/2011/06/starch-lowers-insulin (http://180degreehealth.com/2011/06/starch-lowers-insulin)


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.14 - 23:27:52
På frågan om han tycker att det är bra att överäta svarar han:

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I feel that overfeeding as I define it is good for those with long histories of restricted eating and the emotional issues surrounding food that revolve around that.
 
More than anything, it's great to increase body temperature in those with a body temperature lower than 98 degrees F first thing upon waking in the morning. this is incredibly common and a sign of a reduced metabolic rate. Reduced metabolic rate is the ROOT cause of many health problems – from constipation and the many digestive problems that stem from it (diverticulosis, hemorroids, varicose veins, etc.) to cancer (which is caused by a departure from a high intensity oxidative metabolism) to heart disease/metabolic syndrome and so forth.

"Overfeeding" as I define it is very useful for anyone with a low metabolic rate seeing to overcome that. To me, this is one of the first things that should be analyzed and combatted when any health problem is discovered. But again, this should be done on wholesome, unrefined, low-stimulation foods like simple meats, vegetables, whole fruits, starches, etc.


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.14 - 23:30:15
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You are thinking WAY too much about what you are eating and not thinking about how your body works. There are plenty of ways to change how your body responds to starch. Of course people crash when they eat carbs when their glucose metabolism sucks. But that is correctable.

As for your low-carb ancestry case, your Northern European/Eastern European ancestors were carb-based agriculturalists. The last 3-4 generations determines a lot more about our gene activation and dietary needs than what happened 100,000 years ago. Switching an Asian to an Eskimo diet would bring about rapid deterioration of health. As would probably switching an Eskimo to an Asian diet. The human gene activation system (epigenetics) has a phenomenal way of adapting to any number of different diets.

You feel better on low-carb because your adrenaline is running higher. And you are staying in a sympathetic dominant state. This is fine but it does age you faster and is anti-thyroid (perhaps why Eskimos aged so much more rapidly than what is considered normal).

Take your body temperature. It is probably low. It has probably been low your whole life. But these variables are important. Change something like your metabolic rate and you will change how you respond to just about everything.

At least keep it up with the fruit!

Sugars may in some ways be superior to starches.


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.14 - 23:50:22
Jag ser nu att det var ett gammalt inlägg som han "puffat" på FB.


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: hemul skrivet 2013.04.15 - 00:24:06
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Of course people crash when they eat carbs when their glucose metabolism sucks. But that is correctable.

How? Since low carb obviously isn't the cure, according to Stone, what is? He says overeating is good if you have a history of calorie restriction, but if that's not the case and you are insulin resistant, then what does one need to do?


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.29 - 21:44:10
Så här skriver MS i en kommentar häromdagen:

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The reason for eating lots of fat and carbs together is to maximize calorie intake during recovery. But once you start exercising, the more exercise you get the more the diet should probably favor carbohdyrates – which automatically displaces fat intake. There’s no need to go to extremes, but you should expirement freely to see what you find working the best. If you aren’t eating a ton of fatty foods there’s no reason to avoid whole fat dairy products.

Inlägget heter "How Many Carbohydrates Should YOU Eat?"
http://180degreehealth.com/2013/04/how-many-carbohydrates-should-you-eat (http://180degreehealth.com/2013/04/how-many-carbohydrates-should-you-eat)


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: hemul skrivet 2013.04.29 - 21:52:57
Men det förklarar väl ingenting?


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.29 - 22:14:05
Men det förklarar väl ingenting?

Nä det var inget svar på din fråga  :lol:

Det visar var MS står idag tänkte jag.


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.29 - 22:18:15
Fråga i en kommentar
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You say there are rare cases where people would be better off getting their calories from fat. Are reactive hypoglycemics one such case? Eating lots of carbs makes me feel so tired and sluggish.
 I really have a lot of trouble keeping myself stable. I’m still trying figure out which ratios work best. It’s hard to find a good balance.

Matt Stones svar
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Not necessarily as I think eating more carbohydrates is one of the best ways to overcome that disorder. Feeling tired and sluggish from eating lots of carbs can often signify high cortisol at the time you eat them. But this should be looked at as a relaxed, healthy state of being to spend time in. Massages and hot baths make people feel tired and sluggish too but that is rarely looked at as a bad thing. But I know what you mean. It can be tough to get the benefits of carbs when they trigger an acute stress event afterward.


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Mynlen skrivet 2013.04.30 - 01:19:54
Matt stone, mark sisson. Kanske inte förkorta för mycket ;)


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: hemul skrivet 2013.04.30 - 03:35:39
With all due respect, I think that sounds like utterly BS. I was doing that for years and years. More and more carbs from "good sources" and all I got for my effort was more overweight and even poorer health and overall stamina.

I'm no LCHF zealot, as I'm sure everyone knows that by now. BUT I suffered for decades from the effects of the metabolic syndrome, insulin resistance blah blah blah. If I would make a list of the health benefits I gained when going low carb, some within days, some after maybe half a year or even longer, no one would believe me. No, I'm not religious about it. On the contrary, I'm very critical of the low carb concept. I would even say I loath some aspects of it. But, for me, they got something right. What's wrong is probably (at least partly) the hypotheses behind it all and the urge to bring things to their extremes (if less is better, nothing must be da shit!). I'm something as rare as a person that has regained her life through low carb or, more accurately, is aiming in that direction - I'm fuckin' thriving on low carb -  but I'm still extremely critical to the low carb concept and especially to the low carb bullshitting and the commercialization of low carb, not to speak of the iconization of low carb gurus - the genuine ones and the copycats alike -  and so on and so on. I don't know what specific parameter(s) in the low carb concept that brought my health back, I just know it did.

I think that we should be wary of the risk of throwing the good out with the bad when we criticize low carb or any other dietary regimen. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. That some of us think low carb is, in most permutations and especially the more popular ones, a fake, doesn't necessarily mean they've got it all wrong.

Personally I think that the diet discussion using "either you are with us or against us" arguments is counter-productive. There's probably a grain of truth to be found in most dietary schools and the person that concatenates those grains to a whole, he will be the winner and worthy or several Nobel prizes. Hopefully I'm still around to benefit when and if that day comes.

I'm also more than pleasantly pissed (again) and I find that rather enjoyable. :biggrin1: :borracho:

Oh, and since at this level of intoxication I'm prone to throw proverbs and quotations around, let me finish by quoting Nietschze: Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. So true, that. And so hard to live up to. :whink:

Any bad spelling or poor English is the whine speaking. Don't blame me - I'm an innocent bystander!  :tongue:

Oops!  :inlove:  :blush:



Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: hemul skrivet 2013.04.30 - 14:12:53
Å jösses.  :redface:


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: fetsmart skrivet 2013.04.30 - 14:55:56
With all due respect, I think...
o.s.v.

Vem har skrivit detta, och var? hemul?


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: hemul skrivet 2013.04.30 - 15:17:47
Det står ju där uppe? Kan du inte läsa? :goggle: Jag var tyvärr lite, lite påverkad igår. :look_down:


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.30 - 16:37:34
Å jösses.  :redface:

 :worshippy:


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Subcalva skrivet 2013.04.30 - 17:22:11
Jag håller med dig i det mesta Hemul men jag ser inga motsättningar mellan det du skriver och det MS skriver. (Och med tanke på att tråden heter Matt Stones RRARF så kanske man förstår att jag menar just honom och ingen annan  :whink:)

Jag tycker det är svårt att förhålla sig till LCHF på ett vettigt sätt. Det enda jag med säkerhet kan säga är att jag tror inte väldigt strikt LCHF är så nyttigt i längden för normalviktiga personer. Fast jag är också tveksam till om det är nyttigt för överviktiga personer då risken är stor att man omedvetet drar ner på kalorierna till väldigt låg mängd. Och det är egentligen det jag tror är det farliga oavsett diet.

Jag tror det ligger mycket i Jaminets 50 gram som lägsta gräns för kolhydrater (Schwarzbein har ju också en idé om att inte äta för lite kolhydrater men den gränsen är inte lika tydlig) men om man säger det så är det ju många rabiata inom LCHF som börjar hojta om att det minsann inte är LCHF. Så jag är väldigt glad över ditt forum Hemul där man kan diskutera på ett betydligt mer sansat sätt.
 :worshippy: 

:smile:


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: hemul skrivet 2013.04.30 - 17:47:42
Ja ja. Jag blir lite yvig av rödvin. :sneaktongue:


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Ary skrivet 2013.04.30 - 17:52:38
Ja fem glas om dagen är bara nyttigt Hemulen! Eller var det ett de sade?  :flirting: Man slutar tänka så mycket på förkylning iaf har jag för mig.  :smile:

Ja håller med Subcalva. Skönt att kunna säga kolhydrat eller en frukt här utan att få en gigantisk verbal känga.   :club_idiot:


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: hemul skrivet 2013.04.30 - 18:02:09
Tack tack. Jo, det är ju meningen det, att man ska få tycka olika och äta olika också.

Jag vet inte, subban. Jag har lätt att hålla mig till low carb, moderat sådan då, även om jag har börjat göra utsvävningar i sociala sammanhang på sistone. Om strikt low carb tror jag ju samma som du.

Ary, det var nog mer än 5 glas vin är jag rädd. Å så lite Bourbon. Med det tog jag bara lite av för jag ville inte bli full!  :lick: Nåja, det var värt det och mycket välbehövligt också. Vi har haft ett helvete här i huset och att styrelsen festade loss när vi äntligen rott båten i land tycker jag var på sin plats. Bra för oss också att umgås under lite ledigare former. Hm. :shy:


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Ary skrivet 2013.04.30 - 18:09:33
Hoppas ni hade flytvästar på er jag så när ni rodde iland.  :lol: Vet inte vad exakt ni fick igenom men grattis för du verkar nöjd!  :thumbsup:
Sedan ska man ha rätt att festa loss ibland man kan sköta sig andra dagar.


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Mynlen skrivet 2013.05.01 - 12:10:05
förstår det är matt Stones tråd men om man inte läst titeln noga och bara klickat på "nytt" så blir det litet virrigt ibland när man just läst något av Mark Sisson :)

Men nu hänger jag med igen :flirting:


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: hemul skrivet 2013.05.01 - 12:12:43
Va?  :huuh:


Titel: SV: Matt Stones RRARF
Skrivet av: Mynlen skrivet 2013.05.01 - 12:22:16
äh glöm det! :)